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Post by yealls on Sept 28, 2016 11:54:37 GMT -5
When making Mana you need iron band and blobs of acid. What is the possibility of adding Acid Flask to the recipe to make mana, since both are acids. Mana is heavily used in the expert and master levels. With only two sources for acid (Gelatinous Cube and Greater Ochre Jelly) it is quite time consuming to collect for crafting. We already have to buy items from merchants adding the acid flask would be very helpful. Please conceder this request
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Post by Tempus on Oct 2, 2016 10:18:22 GMT -5
I believe the jelly's have been fixed to drop with each kill (e.g greater and lesser both drop). Also, Mana is used in 5 components and 1 effect so I can see where it would be a rather desirable item.
However, keep in mind that there is a balance to be observed. Given the results of some some of the crafted items of which Mana is used as well as the underlying intention of the professions, I don't believe making a desirable item such as this, purchasable is the answer.
For now, I will increase the availability of the Jelly's.
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Post by yealls on Oct 12, 2016 22:34:40 GMT -5
Would it be possible to add other areas were the blobs of acid could be farmed,such as within Deathbloom, Dis or Demon's Pass. Possible locations could be: for Deathbloom near the owlbears or in the underground grotto near the Stone Giants, for Dis within the Dis Tower, within an abandoned house in Dis, another location could be the abandoned house in Demon's pass north. Each of these locations could hold a couple of Greater Ochre Jellies.
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Post by yealls on Oct 15, 2016 21:36:15 GMT -5
Went to the spider cave and killed the 3 Greater Ochre Jelly and the 6 Lesser Ochre Jelly. Instead of getting 6 blobs of acid I only received 3 blobs of acid. Due to the time and effort involved, this trip is not worth doing.
As for the Mana I have done some math on it. Each craft at the master tier requires the use of mana. To advance to the next level it requires 20 successful crafting's. For example each Payball requires: 3 blobs of acid, 6 iron bands, 2 empty bottles, 1 iron ring and 1 mushroom. Times this by 20 and it adds up quickly. This number does not include catastrophic failures which consumes the parts. Here is the total number of mana needed per item (starting at the low level and going up): Aerosol 4 mana, psyball 3 mana, dispersion 5 mana, fowl extract 5 mana, icy extract 5 mana, colloid 9 mana, disposable hero 10 mana and transmogrify 19 mana. These numbers are needed to make just 1 item and you need 20 successful crafts to advance. As you can see the numbers add up quickly. To be fair I will make the components to make 20 psyballs and will post the number of successful crafting's and the catastrophic failures.
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Post by Tempus on Oct 19, 2016 12:18:00 GMT -5
Would it be possible to add other areas were the blobs of acid could be farmed,such as within Deathbloom, Dis or Demon's Pass. Possible locations could be: for Deathbloom near the owlbears or in the underground grotto near the Stone Giants, for Dis within the Dis Tower, within an abandoned house in Dis, another location could be the abandoned house in Demon's pass north. Each of these locations could hold a couple of Greater Ochre Jellies. ABSOLUTELY! |
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Post by Tempus on Oct 19, 2016 12:20:47 GMT -5
Went to the spider cave and killed the 3 Greater Ochre Jelly and the 6 Lesser Ochre Jelly. Instead of getting 6 blobs of acid I only received 3 blobs of acid. Due to the time and effort involved, this trip is not worth doing. As for the Mana I have done some math on it. Each craft at the master tier requires the use of mana. To advance to the next level it requires 20 successful crafting's. For example each Payball requires: 3 blobs of acid, 6 iron bands, 2 empty bottles, 1 iron ring and 1 mushroom. Times this by 20 and it adds up quickly. This number does not include catastrophic failures which consumes the parts. Here is the total number of mana needed per item (starting at the low level and going up): Aerosol 4 mana, psyball 3 mana, dispersion 5 mana, fowl extract 5 mana, icy extract 5 mana, colloid 9 mana, disposable hero 10 mana and transmogrify 19 mana. These numbers are needed to make just 1 item and you need 20 successful crafts to advance. As you can see the numbers add up quickly. To be fair I will make the components to make 20 psyballs and will post the number of successful crafting's and the catastrophic failures. I will look into this a bit more and provide you my details... Refer to my comments in the PROFESSIONS thread and give me your thoughts |
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Post by yealls on Oct 20, 2016 11:44:30 GMT -5
I have read the post on professions and understand want you are saying. And yes each level and tier does get harder to complete as each craft is more complicated. I am still working on the statistics for the Psyball and will post my results once I craft 20 psyballs. Catastrophic failures are the worse as you lose components. The biggest obstacle is in collecting blobs of acid. I would still like to see a couple of other areas were blobs of acid could be collected. Right now Cia and I are taking turns in farming blobs of acid with the cube. Thanks for adding the full plate +4.
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Post by Tempus on Oct 20, 2016 19:40:13 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't give away the secrets. I think you will be quite surprised at what a psyball does and, consider it well worth the time and effort (as ALL Mastery Level tied professions). And why on EARTH are you going craft 20 psyballs? I wouldnt think that any proper gauge. You might just as well consider the time it takes to craft Nexus!
If you are trying to parse through a tier just to reach the 100% success rate, why wouldn't you craft the lesser, lower item objects? (e.g. aerosol only requires 2 items while a psyball requires 3).
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Post by yealls on Oct 21, 2016 21:11:37 GMT -5
The psyball uses 13 items per psyball whereas the aerosol uses 18 items per aerosol. I have the numbers for you on the crafting of the psyball; it took 72 attempts with 20 successes, 38 failures and 16 catastrophic failures (which you lose the components). The 72 sets of components breakdown into: 432 iron bands, 216 blobs of acid, 144 empty bottles, 72 iron rings and 72 mushrooms. Since I have mastered the low level I can make the aerosol with no catastrophic failures. Although the psyball uses 3 components there are less items to farm/purchase whereas the aerosol uses 2 components with more items to farm/purchase. Logistically it is better to go with the craft that uses less items since you lose many in the crafting. Have you tried to take a toon thru the Engineer Guild Mastery. Looking forward to the other professions. By the way where do you find chicken giblets for the fowl extract?
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Post by Tempus on Oct 22, 2016 6:47:43 GMT -5
Hi Yealls.
Given your math : 72 attempts with 20 successes means 52 were failures: equates to roughly a 69% failure rate!!
The logic is hard coded to support only a 25% failure rate for each tier. Heck- given your math, your under par as to move 3 levels would garner a 75% failure rate!
You cannot expect to move through three mastery levels, with 3 tiers in each, in a single session. The collective failure rate across all three levels (which is exactly what you have cited to me) is an inaccurate way to determine difficulty or even failure rates for that matter. Time consumption is part of the design. You CAN NOT EXPECT to complete a Mastery level in a single session (let alone move from one level to another) given the amount of time the server is up. You CAN EXPECT that within EACH craft level:
---- If your skill rank (d20 + skill rank) is greater than or equal to the DC of the craft, you will succeed and gain a skill rank
---- If you fail the skill check (above) the craft will fail
---- If you fail a craft, 25% of the time you fail AT AN EPIC LEVEL (loose items)
---- If you obtain a skill mastery level (e.g Novice), you can create all crafts at levels below it with 100% success
I know that moving between mastery levels will take players time. I know that some components are rare or even hard to obtain. Though both are by design, also is the build they are used in. Knowing that my personal judgement may not always be on point, I always consider changes to design of this function (e.g. item availability, difficulty of obtaining, resulting craft) and believe I have done this by increasing the availability of the Acid Blob (which seemed to be your initial concern for crafting Mana).
I also know that some components require more sub components than others. This may or may not be design and may in fact be just what it is. It may not be a perfect system for all players all the time. I hope this has helped you understand the mechanic behind professions and resolves your questions about failure/success rates.
If your concerns are more centered on specific components, the number of items to build them and resulting effects of the completed usable item- send me private messages. I am open to change, but will not consider change solely for the sake of making things easier on players.
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Post by yealls on Oct 22, 2016 13:46:08 GMT -5
I have taken the statements "move through three mastery levels, with 3 tiers in each, in a single session" and "You CAN NOT EXPECT to complete a Mastery level in a single session" as an insult to my intelligence as a gamer. I never expected to "move through three mastery levels, with 3 tiers in each, in a single session". At the lower level (i.e. Journeyman) it was possible to get all the components and complete a low level tier in 1 session. I expected that with each tier and level it would take longer to complete as the crafts become more complex and with more items needed. This is only common sense for a gamer. The availability of items is reasonable except for the mana and items that did not exist. The full plate +4 was recently fixed, for which Cia and I thank you. Where do you find chicken giblets for the fowl extract?
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Post by Hild on Oct 23, 2016 3:20:37 GMT -5
I will take the discussion from here. This is bordering on something unpleasant and I will remind us that we should always be respectful at all times. It's a courtesy we owe each other as gamers. We are all friends here and there is a reasonable solution.
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Post by Tempus on Oct 27, 2016 10:59:18 GMT -5
Hi Yealls,
I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. Far from it. However, the sample mathematical success/failure rates and the quantity of psyballs you wished to create (and cite the results of that) implied that you were tallying up the success/failure rates across multiple tiers. I only attempted to clarify the intention of the professions as I thought perspective was needed. In the end, its clear you think that some components (namely the acid blob needed to create mana) should be more frequent in occurrence.
While I disagree- it is something I have taken into advisement and will review once more ppl report on things.
As for where to find something (e.g. Chicken Giblets), I cannot say (it takes all the adventuring out of things!). Suffice to say, if you look at this (as well as ALL craft components) logically, it should take you little time at all to locate it.
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Post by yealls on Oct 27, 2016 13:00:26 GMT -5
Currently there are only two of us who are doing the Engineering Guild ( i.e. Cia and myself). For some reason Cia does not have a forum account and can not post anything. We have both discussed our frustration (in game) at the lack of blobs of acid. It was from that frustration that I suggested additional locations. Since the Greater Ochre Jelly is now fixed it may not be as frustrating as it was. As for my math it was just a sample of crafting one craft. On one of my earlier crafts it took me 100 attempts to make 20 successes. Because of the catastrophic failures it is easier to craft an item with the least amount of items (i.e. iron bands, blobs of acid) so that the items that requires more will be complete successes. Some crafts require more items in fewer components and others require less items in more components.
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Post by yealls on Nov 16, 2016 16:35:24 GMT -5
Thanks for adding the Greater Ochre Jelly to the Dragon Great Hall
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